Estadísticas que dan cuenta de crisis en salud mental adolescente. Between 2011 and 2021, the number of teens and young adults with clinical depression more than doubled. The suicide rate for those in their early 20s rose by 41% between 2007 and 2019. For 10 to 14 year olds, the suicide rate tripled, and it nearly quadrupled for girls. A CDC survey in 2021 found that almost 60% of high school girls experienced persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness during the past year, and nearly 25% made a suicide plan. Transcript: Speaker 2 Between 2011 and 2021, the number of teens and young adults with clinical depression, it more than doubled. More than doubled. Between 2007 and 2019, the suicide rate for those in their early 20s rose by 41%. And the suicide rate for 10 to 14 year olds, 10 to 14 year olds, think about how young that is, it tripled and it nearly quadrupled for girls. A CDC survey found that in 2021, almost 60% of high school girls experienced persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness during the past year. And nearly 25%. I just, this number, man, nearly 25% made a suicide plan. (Time 0:02:24)
Estadísticas que dan cuenta de crisis en salud mental adolescente.
2012 es el año en que aumenta la curva de problemas de salud mental adolescente. Transcript: Speaker 1 So I work with these large national surveys often of teens. And I’ve been doing that for a number of years. So when I first started to see these trends, they were surprising because they were so sudden. So around 2012, more and more teens started to say they felt lonely and left out. And more started to say they felt like they couldn’t do anything right or that they didn’t enjoy life. Those last two are classic symptoms of depression. Then other data started to pop up. Clinical level depression that requires treatment started to rise. Emergency room admissions for self harm started to rise in CDC data. Same thing for suicide attempts and completed suicides. So at first, thought it might be a blip year or two of data, but it kept going. So for example, between 2011 and 2019, well before the pandemic, clinical level depression among teens doubled. Emergency room admissions for self harm tripled in 10 to 14 year old girls. So this is why I say we know it’s not just the pandemic. (Time 0:04:53)
adolescencia salud_mental
Efecto es mayor en mujeres que en hombres. Transcript: Speaker 1 So the biggest difference is boys versus girls. And it varies a little bit from one measure to another. So for clinical level depression, it’s doubled for both girls and boys, but because teen girls’ rates of depression are and were always higher, the number of people that this affects Is larger for girls. And then in many of the other measures we’ve been discussing, the changes are considerably larger for girls than for boys. So self-harm behaviors is one of those, where there’s not as much change for boys as there is for girls. Same is true for the suicide rate that it has changed for both, but it has changed more and increased more among girls than among boys. (Time 0:07:17)
adolescencia género salud_mental
Smartphone como principal explicación de aumento en problemas de salud mental adolescente. Transcript: Speaker 1 So I think we have to look at the pattern across all of the measures. So not just suicide, but also those ER admissions for self-harm, the rise in depression, the rise in anxiety, the rise in unhappiness. And across the board, all of these indicators have gotten worse in terms of mental health. And the pattern is fairly similar that around 2010 or so, these indicators start to get worse. Now, the exact time when they start to increase varies a little bit from one measure to another sometime between 2009 and 2013. It’s right in that time period. So you have to ask, what happened during that time period? Because we’re not trying to explain all of the causes of mental health issues among teens. We want to know why it increased so much over such a short period of time. So it has to be something that changed around that time and then kept going in the same direction over the next decade or so. So when I first started to see these changes, I had absolutely no idea what the cause could be. It was pretty clear it was not economics because the US economy finally started to improve after about 2011, after the Great Recession. It was difficult to think of any major event that occurred around that time and then reverberated throughout the decade. And then one day I came across the results of a poll from the Pew Center for Research. And it showed that the end of 2012 was the first time that the majority of Americans owned a smartphone. And in the same surveys of teens, that time period was also when social media use moved from something that about half of teens were doing every day. It was in 2009 to by 2015, 2016, about 80% of them were doing it every day. So then basically what happened is social media use moved from optional to almost mandatory among teens. So that’s when I started to think maybe that had something to do with it. That teens were spending so much more time online also because this lined up with other things. They were also sleeping less. Trend isn’t exactly the same pattern. That started to increase after 2011 or 2012. And they also started spending less time with their friends in person. So that had started to decline just a little bit after about 2000 and then it really falls off a cliff after 2010. So you put this together. There was a fundamental change in the way teens spent their time outside of school starting in that same time period early 2010s. And that coincides with pretty good precision with when mental health started to suffer. (Time 0:08:42)
adolescencia argumento celulares salud_mental
adolescencia argumento celulares salud_mental
Por qué la tesis de los celulares hace sentido? Transcript: Speaker 1 The reason why I think the smartphones and social media explanation has held up is because that is what had the biggest impact on the day-to-day lives of teens. It wasn’t something that happened to their parents. It wasn’t a single thing they read about in the news. It completely restructured their time outside of school because social media is social. It impacts even people who don’t use it. And it had a huge impact on the way teens spent time with their friends, that they started spending a lot less time with each other face-to-face. And you think about what’s important for mental health overall, its relationships. And you think about teens in particular, that is what makes or breaks mental health for a teen, is their relationships, particularly their friendships. And the way those friendships were conducted changed completely. (Time 0:17:05)
adolescencia argumento celulares salud_mental
adolescencia argumento celulares salud_mental
Mecanismos: menos interacciones presenciales y menos sueño. The plausible explanation for the increase in mental health issues is supported by various mechanisms including time displacement in in-person interactions and sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation is a significant risk factor for depression and suicidal thoughts, and its correlation with the rise in mental health issues among teens in surveys reinforces this link. Transcript: Speaker 1 There are a lot of different mechanisms. It’s another reason why it is such a plausible explanation. So as we’ve already talked about, there’s the time displacement, not just with in-person interactions with friends, but also with sleep. Sleep is absolutely crucial for mental health. Not sleeping enough is a huge risk factor for depression and suicidal thoughts. And sleep deprivation among teens in two different surveys shows exactly the same pattern as the mental health issues, which is around 2012 or so, it starts going up. So that’s our first couple of mechanisms. (Time 0:18:28)
Mecanismos: menos interacciones presenciales y menos sueño.
adolescencia celulares mecanismo salud_mental
Mecanismos: comparación social, indicadores de popularidad y ciberbullying. Transcript: Speaker 1 So there’s all of the things that happen when a teen uses social media. So we can start with things like social comparison and body image issues. So this is what Facebook’s own research shows as well as plenty of external academic research as well. That looking at say these ideal bodies on Instagram or even the people you go to high school with, and they look more glamorous and you’re comparing your body to theirs and your appearance To theirs and coming up short. So that’s the social comparison piece and lots of studies on this that people have spent more time and especially those who spend more time looking at those images on Instagram. If they have that tendency towards social comparison, that’s where you get the body image issues, appearance issues, and then those mediated those can then lead to depression. And in Facebook’s research, they had a bunch of focus groups as well as large surveys, and they found this over and over. And the focus group quotes, some of them are really stunning. They would talk about a grief spiral and they start looking at these images, feel inadequate, then get depressed. Then there’s all of the other things that people have discussed about the influence of social media that it means popularity becomes a number. How many likes do you have? How many followers do you have? And it’s never enough. Then cyberbullying some of the admin holes that people end up going down that has been documented. If you start looking for healthy eating, you might end up on pro-enteraxia sites and there’s no way to reset that and that negative material keeps showing up. Same thing for a lot of things around mental health. And again, it just becomes a spiral. (Time 0:20:36)
adolescencia bullying interacción mecanismo presencialidad salud_mental
adolescencia bullying interacción mecanismo presencialidad salud_mental
Negative Impact of Social Media on Teens Social media usage by teens can lead to social comparison, body image issues, and depression due to exposure to idealized bodies and appearances. The pursuit of popularity through likes and followers can lead to feelings of inadequacy. Additionally, cyberbullying is a documented issue with harmful consequences. Transcript: Speaker 1 So there’s all of the things that happen when a teen uses social media. So we can start with things like social comparison and body image issues. So this is what Facebook’s own research shows as well as plenty of external academic research as well. That looking at say these ideal bodies on Instagram or even the people you go to high school with, and they look more glamorous and you’re comparing your body to theirs and your appearance To theirs and coming up short. So that’s the social comparison piece and lots of studies on this that people have spent more time and especially those who spend more time looking at those images on Instagram. If they have that tendency towards social comparison, that’s where you get the body image issues, appearance issues, and then those mediated those can then lead to depression. And in Facebook’s research, they had a bunch of focus groups as well as large surveys, and they found this over and over. And the focus group quotes, some of them are really stunning. They would talk about a grief spiral and they start looking at these images, feel inadequate, then get depressed. Then there’s all of the other things that people have discussed about the influence of social media that it means popularity becomes a number. How many likes do you have? How many followers do you have? And it’s never enough. Then cyberbullying some of the admin holes that people end up going down that has been documented. (Time 0:20:36)
Efecto del 2012 es internacional. Transcript: Speaker 1 So in the international data, we see exactly the same pattern as we see in the US for teen mental health. That in 36 countries around the world, adolescent loneliness began to increase after 2012, just like it does in the US data. We have solid data on depression and on happiness in English speaking countries, again, exact same pattern. So in the UK, in Australia, in Canada, exact same pattern for teens for anxiety and depression, self harm, unhappiness. It’s just very, very consistent. And that also suggests some cause that was worldwide. That helps us furlough more US-based explanations like worries around school shootings, which tend not to happen in other countries, and certain, you know, political events. (Time 0:22:38)
adolescencia celulares global salud_mental
adolescencia celulares salud_mental
Global Consistency in Adolescent Mental Health Trends and Gender Differences Adolescent loneliness, anxiety, depression, self harm, and unhappiness have shown a consistent pattern of increase across 36 countries since 2012, mirroring the trends observed in the US. Data from English speaking countries, including the UK, Australia, and Canada, also exhibit the same pattern. This global consistency suggests a worldwide cause, reducing the viability of US-specific explanations such as concerns about school shootings. The observation that girls experience more severe impacts on mental health than boys aligns with their higher social media usage, which has a stronger link to depression compared to boys’ gaming activities. Transcript: Speaker 1 So in the international data, we see exactly the same pattern as we see in the US for teen mental health. That in 36 countries around the world, adolescent loneliness began to increase after 2012, just like it does in the US data. We have solid data on depression and on happiness in English speaking countries, again, exact same pattern. So in the UK, in Australia, in Canada, exact same pattern for teens for anxiety and depression, self harm, unhappiness. It’s just very, very consistent. And that also suggests some cause that was worldwide. That helps us furlough more US-based explanations like worries around school shootings, which tend not to happen in other countries, and certain, you know, political events. Speaker 2 How does the smartphone thesis map on to the not just the observation that the reality that this has been much worse among girls and boys? Speaker 1 Well, girls spend more time on social media. And time on social media is more strongly linked to depression than time spent on, say, gaming, which is where boys spend more of their screen time. So those two factors, they spend more time on it, and it’s more strongly linked to depression for them might explain the gender difference. (Time 0:22:38)
Impact of Smartphone Usage on Gender Differences in Depression Smartphone usage affects girls more than boys, as girls spend more time on social media, which is strongly linked to depression. Boys spend more time gaming, which is less linked to negative outcomes due to interactive nature of gaming, enabling real-time interaction with friends, unlike passive social media browsing. Transcript: Speaker 2 How does the smartphone thesis map on to the not just the observation that the reality that this has been much worse among girls and boys? Speaker 1 Well, girls spend more time on social media. And time on social media is more strongly linked to depression than time spent on, say, gaming, which is where boys spend more of their screen time. So those two factors, they spend more time on it, and it’s more strongly linked to depression for them might explain the gender difference. Speaker 2 I’ve been that pretty striking. Why do you think gaming is not as linked to some of these negative outcomes? Speaker 1 These days, the way most teens and adults game, it’s often interactive. So they’ll play games with their friends. They aren’t there face to face, but it’s often in real time. And they’ll often talk to each other as they’re playing the game. So, you know, not the same as running around outside playing football, say, but still in real time and still interaction with friends, where on social media, only some of it is interaction With friends. A good amount of it is, you know, watching TikTok videos from people you’ve never met or scanning through the pages of Instagram influencers. (Time 0:23:37)
Gaming vs Social Media: The Relationship to Self-Perception Gaming promotes self-engagement and control, providing the opportunity to do things and have a perceived level of control. Conversely, social media encourages users to focus on external judgment and comparison, leading to a tendency to put oneself out for judgment and inhabit the judger. This is likened to the concept of self-objectification, particularly for women, where the focus is on appearance for others’ evaluation rather than on capabilities or skills. Transcript: Speaker 2 This is one thing I was trying to sit with as I read the book and thought about this data that gaming has this tendency to be not just a directive, but it’s you doing it. It’s you doing something where social media has this weird tendency to put you outside yourself looking in. I mean, you’ve talked about it as comparative, but it’s also you’re posting pictures, you’re writing things and then seeing how people respond. You’re always putting yourself out for judgment and you begin to inhabit the judger in a weird way. I mean, I certainly felt this myself and I did not get social media when I was a 13 year old. Is there something to that? The way that gaming keeps you in yourself and social media takes you outside yourself? Speaker 1 I think so. It reminds me of some of the research on what’s called self objectification in terms of appearance, that particularly for women, there’s the pressure to focus on how your body looks To others, rather than what your body can do, say, in terms of sports or other things. It’s somewhat of the same element because in gaming, you can do things and maybe you’re going to fail and maybe your friends will make fun of you, but still, you’re doing something. You have at least some perceived level of control. (Time 0:24:53)
Mixed findings on the impact of digital technology on adolescent well-being Some studies have found little to no significant effect of digital technology use on adolescent well-being, while others have shown a negative but small association, explaining up to 0.4% of the variation in well-being. However, a 2019 study in Nature Human Behavior, which initially found a small negative association, was later debunked by three other research groups that found a strong link between social media use and depression, especially among girls. Another research group in the UK using the same dataset found three times as many heavy social media users were depressed compared to non-users among girls, indicating a significant impact. Transcript: Speaker 2 So I want to note that there are some studies that have looked at this and found very little effect or no effect or averse effect. There was a 2019 study in Nature Human Behavior that found, quote, the association we find between digital technology use and adolescent well-being is negative but small, explaining The most 0.4% of the variation in well-being. There’s a 2018 study in psychiatric quarterly that also found very unremarkable results. You’ve kept along with John Heit and some others, this online compendium of studies on teen mental health. So when you see these studies, and there are a good number of them that come out and say, we checked into this and we just can’t find anything significant or big here. How do you interpret what’s happening in them and if they do, how do they change your priors? Speaker 1 So that 2019 Nature Human Behavior study has been pretty thoroughly debunked because three other research groups analyzed the same data and found there was actually a very strong Link between social media and depression, especially among girls in that same data. It was very interesting, the same month that that study came out, another research group in the UK used the same data set and found that three times as many heavy users of social media Were depressed as non-users among girls. That’s not small. (Time 0:28:42)
Debunking 2019 Study on Social Media and Depression The 2019 Nature Human Behavior study linking social media and depression has been debunked by three other research groups who found a strong link between social media and depression, particularly among girls. A UK research group discovered that heavy users of social media were three times more likely to be depressed than non-users among girls. Independent reanalysis using sophisticated statistical techniques also highlighted methodological flaws in the 2019 study. Additionally, reanalysis of the 2018 psychiatric quarterly paper revealed a pattern showing twice as many depressed girls in the heavy social media use group compared to the light or no use group. Studies that dismiss these findings often overlook the specific impact of social media and focus only on overall screen time. Transcript: Speaker 1 So that 2019 Nature Human Behavior study has been pretty thoroughly debunked because three other research groups analyzed the same data and found there was actually a very strong Link between social media and depression, especially among girls in that same data. It was very interesting, the same month that that study came out, another research group in the UK used the same data set and found that three times as many heavy users of social media Were depressed as non-users among girls. That’s not small. So then I and then another research group from Spain who I have no connection to later use the same more sophisticated statistical technique that those authors did in the Nature Human Behavior paper. And we both independently came to the same conclusion that first there was some very strange methodological choices in that 2019 paper. And also that if you zero in on social media and if you zero in on girls, there are definitely significant and impactful differences. If I know the 2018 psychiatric quarterly paper that you’re discussing, I reanalyzed that data for a paper recently. Same thing. And it also turns out if you take that data and look at it in a more intuitive way, let’s just look at the percentage who are depressed at every level of social media. It’s extremely common to find that pattern that those who don’t use social media or use it only lightly compared to those who use it heavily, that there’s twice as many in the heavy use Group, particularly among girls who are depressed compared to the light or no use group. So these papers that say, you know, oh, there’s nothing here, often are just looking at screen time overall that 2019 paper included owning a computer. It also included watching TV. So they often don’t zero in on social media. (Time 0:29:27)
Impact of Television vs. Social Media on Mental Health Television has been the subject of moral panic in the past, but data suggests that it does not have as significant negative effects on mental health as social media. Television’s impact extends to the feeling of community, materialism, reading habits, national discourse, and tolerance for complex arguments. However, social media is found to have more significant negative effects on mental health compared to television. Transcript: Speaker 2 Tell me a bit more actually about that screen time question because one thing you’ll hear in this conversation is we had a big moral panic about television. And, you know, it turns out that a lot of us grow up watching a lot of television and, you know, many of us at least think we are fine. Maybe we are not. I would argue that point actually, but that may be a whole other discussion. I sort of agree with you that I think actually a bunch of the TV people were right about this, but tell me about that because there is nevertheless in the data as I understand it. A finding at this point that television does not seem to have the level of significant negative effects on mental health that social media does. But so I’d first like to hear your point on maybe we’re not fine because television messed with our brains and then I’d like to hear the difference between what you see in the data on using A screen for television and using it for social media. Speaker 1 So the impacts of television, it’s not quite as much for mental health per se as it is for things like the feeling of community materialism, the amount people read the national discourse And how tolerant it is of more complex arguments. (Time 0:31:44)
The Impact of Technology Use on Mental Health The amount of technology use is highly correlated with its effect on individuals, but the causal arrow may go the other way. People might watch a lot of TV or spend excessive time on social media due to underlying issues such as depression or lack of social connections. However, the overall pattern shows a clear link between technology and depression, with technology leading to increased depression, especially in the case of teen depression after 2012. It is unlikely that depression caused the increase in technology use, as the timeline does not align with this explanation. Transcript: Speaker 2 So there’s an observation here, as you just mentioned, that how much people use is very highly correlated to what the effect of the use seems to be. But something you’ll hear about that is that maybe that goes the other way. Maybe you watch a lot of TV because you’re depressed, because you don’t have other good options. Maybe you’re on social media all the time because you don’t have other friends. Maybe the causal arrow is going in the other direction. And particularly social media, in this case, TV in another era, and for some people even now, that you’re on there a lot because things are not going well for you already. It’s not that things are not going well for you because you’re on there a lot. How do you think about that? Speaker 1 So there’s two different questions here. So one is that overall pattern of say teen depression increasing so much after 2012. So there, it seems pretty clear that it’s technology leading to depression rather than the other way around because if it was depression causing technology use, you’d have to say this. You’d have to say, OK, teen depression started to increase for some completely unknown reason. Nobody’s been able to figure out yet. And that’s why teens started to buy smartphones and spend a lot of time on social media. It doesn’t work. So it seems pretty clear that the generational level we’re not getting a reverse causation. Now, at the individual level, sure, that’s a more plausible explanation. But we have a good amount of experimental data (Time 0:33:24)
Impact of Social Media on Mental Health in Liberal Teens Liberal teens have a higher likelihood of experiencing mental health issues, such as depression, compared to conservative teens. This trend is linked to liberal teens spending more time on social media and decreasing face-to-face interaction with friends, a shift that occurred around 2012. The decrease in in-person socializing among liberal teens contrasts with the 1970s and 80s when they spent more time with friends face to face than conservative teens. Transcript: Speaker 2 While we’re on politics for a minute, one interesting wrinkle in the data here is that liberal teens are quite a bit more and happy have more mental health issues than conservative teens. In 2019 to 2021, liberal teens were nearly twice as likely to be depressed as conservative teens. You see this even swamping some of the gender data. So you see liberal boys being more depressed than conservative girls, if I remember this number correctly. So why are liberal teens less happy? Speaker 1 Well, and that is a very, very interesting finding. So I dig into that in the book. And I think there’s a couple of possibilities, but the one that I ended up realizing fit the data the best, liberal teens spend more time on social media and they have increasingly spent Less time with each other face to face. And there’s a bigger change among liberals in spending time with friends face to face. So back in the 70s and 80s, liberal teens actually spent more time with their friends face to face than conservative teens. And right around 2012 that flipped. (Time 0:42:43)
The Influence of Parenting on Teens’ Perspective on Social Change Liberal teens tend to have liberal parents, who are more comfortable with social change, while conservative teens tend to have conservative parents. This may lead to differences in attitudes towards social media, with liberal parents being more accepting of their teens spending time online, while conservative parents may have more restrictions. The shift towards spending more time online may also impact face-to-face social interaction. This reflects a broader trend in parenting culture, where parents today are more oriented towards safety and removing obstacles from their children’s way, compared to a couple of decades ago. Transcript: Speaker 1 Well, liberals sometimes called progresses are by definition more comfortable with social change. So liberal teens tend to have liberal parents, conservative teens tend to have conservative parents. And this is a guess, but perhaps liberal teens and their parents said, hey, you know, social media spending time online, that’s just what kids do now. And that’s cool. That’s just the change. It’s just what people do now. And conservative parents might have been more skeptical and might have had more restrictions on their kids with social media. And that same thing could have interacted with the face to face social interaction because once teens start as a group anyway, start spending a lot more time online, then the norm shifts To doing that instead of getting together in person. Speaker 2 This gets to a set of broader ideas around parenting, which I associate not only, but substantially with your co-author on some of this work, John Heit, who’s made the point that we live In a parenting culture that’s increasingly oriented towards safety. And you’ve quite a lot of data about this in the new book that parents today, much more so than parents, you know, a couple decades ago, are trying to mow any obstacles out of their kids Way. You have a great line where you talk about how, you know, it used to be the 13 year old was a babysitter and now a 13 year old needs a babysitter. What do you see in both the data and the changes around parenting itself? How do you see that playing into this? (Time 0:45:41)
Impact of technology on parenting and generational change The increase in parenting orientation towards safety is associated with the idea that parents today are removing obstacles from their children’s way more than parents did a couple of decades ago. The author links this trend to the influence of technology, better medical care, and longer lives, which have resulted in a slower developmental trajectory from infancy to old age. This slower trajectory has led to kids being less independent and teenagers being less likely to engage in activities like driving, socializing, drinking alcohol, having sex, and getting a paid job. Transcript: Speaker 2 This gets to a set of broader ideas around parenting, which I associate not only, but substantially with your co-author on some of this work, John Heit, who’s made the point that we live In a parenting culture that’s increasingly oriented towards safety. And you’ve quite a lot of data about this in the new book that parents today, much more so than parents, you know, a couple decades ago, are trying to mow any obstacles out of their kids Way. You have a great line where you talk about how, you know, it used to be the 13 year old was a babysitter and now a 13 year old needs a babysitter. What do you see in both the data and the changes around parenting itself? How do you see that playing into this? Speaker 1 So I think it’s important in this case to start with the broader picture that, you know, the theory that I really start with in the book is the technology is at the root of so much generational And cultural change and that one of the outcomes of technology, because we have better medical care, is longer lives. When people live longer, tend to get something at psychologist called the slow life strategy that the entire developmental trajectory slows down from infancy to old age. Kids are less independent. Teenagers are less likely to get their driver’s license to go out with their friends, to drink alcohol, to have sex, to have a paid job. (Time 0:46:25)
Delayed Adulthood and its Consequences Middle-aged individuals appear younger than their predecessors due to longer lifespans. However, the delayed transition to adult activities for today’s teens presents trade-offs. While fewer teens engaging in risky behaviors can be positive, the lack of independence, decision-making experience, and work exposure can lead to challenges when transitioning to college or the workplace. The slow life strategy has both advantages and drawbacks, and a shift in parenting towards shielding children from not only physical dangers but also formative experiences may present issues in the long run. Transcript: Speaker 1 Middle aged people look and feel younger than their parents and grandparents did at the same age. So 60 is the new 50, this type of idea, because lives last longer. So that trajectory slows down. And that’s not all bad or all good. I mean, let’s focus on teens for a minute. Most parents are pretty thrilled that not as many teens are having sex or drinking alcohol, but it’s not all good, because if they also don’t go out of the house that much without their Parents, don’t have a driver’s license and never had a job, that transition to college or the workplace can be challenging. They just haven’t had as much experience with independence and decision making. So there’s trade-offs. The slow life strategy is not all good. It’s not all bad. It doesn’t mean kids are more responsible or less mature. It just means they’re taking longer, you know, to do these adult activities. But looking more at the edges, we can see some issues that if we have a shift in parenting that’s not just, okay, they’re going to take longer to grow up, but that’s in the mix. And we want to protect them from not just physical dangers, but experiences. Then we’re starting to run into trouble. This is the observation that John Hyatt and Lenore Skeney have (Time 0:47:54)
Divergent Levels of Independence: Real World vs. Digital World Parents are more cautious in the real world but allow extensive independence in the digital world for younger kids. The real world is perceived as having overstated dangers, while the dangers in the digital world are understated. Teens have significant freedom in the digital world with limited supervision, while being heavily regulated in the real world. The teen suicide rate has exceeded the teen homicide rate for years, indicating the concerning impact of this dichotomy. Transcript: Speaker 2 Well, there’s a weird disconnect here between you can’t let your kid out of your site. So there’s a lot less of independence out in the real world. But then this really expansive independence for fairly young kids in the digital world, in part because just harder over long periods of time, to keep all the kind of parental blockers And not let them be talking to their friends on Facebook Messenger or whatever. And so there is this distinction between the real world, which does have dangers, but I think it’s fair to say in most of the data that are overstated in our culture. And the digital world, which the dangers are of anything understated, it seems for teens in our culture, but teens have a lot more freedom to traverse the digital world for hours and Hours and hours a day with no supervision while being out in the real world is much more heavily regulated. Speaker 1 I think that’s exactly right. And in my previous book, I Gen, which is all about Gen Z, there’s one graph that I made which illustrates this. And again, it’s at the extremes, but that about 2011, the teen suicide rate exceeded the teen homicide rate for, it wasn’t the first time, but it was the first time I did it for years on End where the two crossed. (Time 0:50:05)
Truvia Sweeteners and Individual Solutions for Smartphone Use Truvia offers plant-based zero calorie sweeteners made from stevia leaf or monk fruit, which can be used to reduce sugar in various recipes such as chocolate chip cookies and lemon bars. They can be purchased with a 15% discount using the code Truvia 15 at store.truvia.com. On the topic of individual solutions for smartphone use, the speaker acknowledges the effectiveness of individual constraints like setting limits on screen time and not using phones after 7pm, but also emphasizes the need for more regulation, particularly around social media. Their favorite individual solution is to have no phones in the bedroom overnight. Transcript: Speaker 4 For blissful breakfast beverages, delectable desserts and everything in between, Truvia can help you reduce the sugar and keep the sweet. With ingredients of stevia, leaf or monk fruit, Truvia’s plant-based zero calorie sweetener measures cup for cup like sugar. Try Truvia Sweet Complete Granulated and Truvia Sweet Complete Brown to make chocolate chip cookies. Or make lemon bars from Truvia Sweet Complete Convectioners, head to store.truvia.com to purchase and use code Truvia 15 for 15% off. Speaker 2 One set of solutions you often hear have to do with individual or even parental restraint around smartphone use. So, you know, grayscale your phone or set limits on the screen time app or utility or no phones after 7pm, that kind of thing. How do you think about that set of individual either hacks or constraints as an answer to this? Speaker 1 Well, I’m of two minds about this. I think on the one hand, there are things individuals can do. On the other, it’d be even better if we had more regulation, particularly around social media. So, there are things that we can each at least try to do. So, no phones in the bedroom overnight is my favorite one. (Time 1:05:34)
Balancing Individual Action and Regulations in Managing Social Media Use Individuals can take steps such as avoiding phones in the bedroom and using alarm clocks instead of phones. Delaying the introduction of smartphones and social media for children can be beneficial, potentially starting with a pared-down smartphone. However, the speaker suggests the need for more regulation, particularly around social media, to further address the issue. Transcript: Speaker 1 Well, I’m of two minds about this. I think on the one hand, there are things individuals can do. On the other, it’d be even better if we had more regulation, particularly around social media. So, there are things that we can each at least try to do. So, no phones in the bedroom overnight is my favorite one. And that’s not just for teens, it’s for adults too. Tons of sleep lab studies, as we talked about, that you’re not going to sleep as well. So, the first thing that you’re going to do with your phone is in your bedroom. People have a tendency to when they wake up in the middle of the night, look at it, and then that whole process starts over again with poor sleep. And many people’s protest to this is, yes, but I have to have my phone in my bedroom overnight because it’s my alarm clock. I have some advice for you by an alarm clock. They’re cheap. You can buy two or three if you’re worried. So, I have three kids. We have tried to delay the smartphone as long as possible and delay social media even further. And I do think that is a good idea. If the kid really needs a phone, give him a flip phone, get him a pared-down smartphone like a GAB phone where you can text, talk and take pictures, and that’s it. (Time 1:06:41)
Call for Social Media Ban for Kids Under 16 Republican Senator Josh Hawley has called for a ban on social media use for kids under 16, emphasizing that social media is not designed for children and is primarily profit-driven. The argument is that there are safer and more suitable ways for kids under 16 to communicate with each other than through social media. The viewpoint is that the negative impact of social media on children justifies implementing this ban. Transcript: Speaker 2 So, Republican Senator Josh Hawley has actually called for a ban on social media use for kids under 16. He said, did your research partially in calling for that ban? It hasn’t gotten, I think, a ton of momentum, but your view is that’s actually worth it. That this is bad enough that we should just lock it out for kids under 16. Speaker 1 Yeah, I do think that there are safer ways, better ways for kids 15 and under to communicate with each other than social media, which is not designed for children. It’s not even designed for teens. It’s designed for adults. Plus, then there’s the whole element of why does social media exist? It exists because it makes money. We think it’s free. (Time 1:08:51)
Bipartisan Support for Holding Tech Companies Accountable and Privacy Issues In the Senate, there is bipartisan support for the approach of holding tech companies accountable and focusing on the collection and use of data on privacy. This approach is aimed at addressing the business model of social media where individuals’ data is used as a product. There is a growing concern about how social media and the internet are impacting politics and the national mood, leading to widespread pessimism despite being out of step with objective reality. Transcript: Speaker 1 Well, it’s interesting, at least in the Senate, it’s been pretty bipartisan. So Richard Blumenthal say has done a lot of work on this. There’s some other Democratic politicians who have done the same. For states, it’s true. It seems to have broken down that way more commonly than not. But I mean, how much do we have right now where there is bipartisan support? This is one of the few things that falls under that. Speaker 2 One thing you’re seeing in a bunch of states, California, where I’m from is one is an approach. It’s less about, you know, I would call parental rights or paternalism. And more about this idea of holding tech companies accountable, focusing on the collection and use of data on privacy. How do you think about that? Speaker 1 I think it’s long overdue that, you know, we have to start thinking a lot more about this business model where on social media, you are the product and your data is the product. And is that really how we want to be doing things? Plus, then there’s all the other issues of how social media and the internet environment overall affecting politics. How is it affecting the national mood? I mean, we were discussing this pessimism, which seems to be so pervasive now, which, you know, I think it’s fairly out of step with objective reality. (Time 1:11:28)
Mental Health Policy and Pervasive Negativity Impact on Young Adults Considering the impact of banning social media for those under 16, there is hope for a significant improvement in mental health. Addressing the pervasive negativity and combating high levels of pessimism among young adults is also crucial. The concern extends beyond individual prospects to a broader pessimism about the world. Transcript: Speaker 2 Are there other major policies you would want to put into place for mental health? And here putting social media to the side, let’s say we banned it for everybody under 16 and kind of did everything else on the list that you would be interested in. What other things do you think we could do that would be good for team mental health? Speaker 1 Well, I mean, that would be a huge step and who knows if it’ll ever happen, but I have my hopes. I think that would make an enormous difference. You know, I think a lot of the other solutions are less straightforward. But if there are ways to combat the pervasive negativity that we’ve been discussing, I think that would make a big difference too, because obviously the mental health of young people Is an enormous concern. But in doing further analyses for this new book, the other thing that started to really concern me was the extremely high levels of pessimism among young adults, not just about their Own prospects, but about the world. It was really stunning to me. (Time 1:13:00)
Impacts of Social Media on Social Connections and Mental Health The conversation highlights the impact of social media on social connections and mental health. It emphasizes that the focus has shifted from time displacement to negativity, leading to weakened social connections, reduced in-person socializing, and sleep deprivation. The speaker expresses curiosity about addressing these issues through potential policies and national programs, especially as depression and loneliness appear to be increasing among adults due to these factors. Transcript: Speaker 2 But one thing I noticed here that I think is interesting and I wonder if it points towards any other policies is that when we started talking about social media, we talked a lot about time Displacement more than negativity, right? That people aren’t seeing friends as much in person. Their social connections are weakening. They’re not sleeping as much. So here at the end, we’re talking more about the stew of negativity. And I agree on the stew of negativity. I think it’s bad. But I’m curious on those other things. I mean, if we think those are powerful, it does feel to me like maybe there is more we can do on them. I don’t exactly know what it would be like what a national program to help people sleep better, what actually look like. But I wonder if you’re beginning to see this creep up the age scale. If it doesn’t have some of the same effects. I mean, we’ve covered loneliness among adults on other episodes of the show and that seems to be pretty bad. I mean, is that where you begin to look? Speaker 1 Yes, depression is starting to creep up the age scale. So one thing I did in the book is look at time spent in person in a survey of adults. I started looking at this in teens and there has been the decline in in person socializing among millennials. So in this case, like a 27 to 41 year olds. (Time 1:18:15)