Episode AI notes
- A perfect night’s sleep consists of four stages: non-REM stage 1, stage 2, deep slow-wave sleep, and REM sleep, which are crucial for brain cleaning and restoration.
- There are two major states of sleep: non-REM and REM, which have different characteristics and functions.
- During deep, slow-wave sleep, the brain undergoes cleaning processes and performs important restorative functions.
- Different hormones are associated with different stages of sleep, such as melatonin for nighttime sleep and growth hormone release during deep sleep.
- Missing the first deep sleep cycle can result in missing out on a significant release of growth hormone.
- Catching the first phase of sleep and not missing the first deep sleep cycle is crucial for protein synthesis and memory consolidation.
- Alcohol consumption close to bedtime can negatively impact sleep quality.
- It’s important to listen to your body’s signals and wake up naturally if possible, rather than relying on an alarm clock.
- Combining subjective and objective data is the best approach for assessing sleep quality.
- Deep sleep plays a role in brain cleaning and washout processes.
- Sleep is important for synaptic plasticity and the clearing of misfolded proteins in the brain.
- Having a consistent sleep schedule and waking up with children can help align sleep patterns.
- Norepinephrine levels during sleep impact heart rate variation and memory consolidation.
- Sleep spindles are important for intelligence, memory consolidation, and learning during sleep.
- Sleep spindles allow for neuronal plasticity, connectivity between the hippocampus and cortex, and the encoding of schemas.
- Calming the sympathetic nervous system before sleep is important, especially after experiencing trauma.
- The absence of an orphaneferen during sleep allows emotions to be separated from cognitive aspects of memory. (Time 0:00:00)
Understanding Sleep: Phases and the Perfect Night’s Sleep Summary: A perfect night’s sleep consists of four states: non-REM stage 1, stage 2, deep slow-wave sleep, and REM sleep. These stages are crucial for brain cleaning and restoration. We cycle through these stages every 90 minutes, with the first REM period occurring about 95 minutes after falling asleep. For a perfect night’s sleep, aim for seven and a half to eight hours. Transcript: Speaker 1 What is a perfect night’s sleep? Oh, yeah, that’s a great question. So sleep is really different from wakefulness, and in fact can’t be replaced by any state of wakefulness that we’ve been able to come up with so far. Our brain chemistry is completely different, and in the different stages of sleep, which there is non-REM and REM, are the two major states of sleep, and every animal we’ve studied So far seems to have both of those states. Anyway, those two states are entirely different from one another, too. And even within non-REM, there are three states, stage one, which is what you slip into when you first falling asleep. It’s dozing. There’s kind of an interesting rhythm that goes on in the brain. It’s kind of a fast gamma rhythm. And then there’s stage two, which is a really cool state. We sort of used to ignore sleep researchers because it was a transient state between wakefulness and the deep stage three, slow-away sleep, which is the most impressively different. And then between that and REM sleep. So stage two, I’ll talk a little bit more about, and then the deep, slow-away sleep state, which is when big, slow-wave sweep through our brain, and now we realize that it cleans our brain. One of the things that those big slow-waves do is clean our brain, and does other really important things to restore us from a day of wakefulness. And then REM sleep, which is the most popular, because that’s where we have the most active dreams. And when you wake up someone out of REM sleep, they’ll almost always report having dreamed something really bizarre. That’s called REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep. So those are the four states of sleep, human sleep, and we cycle through them every 90 minutes or so. When we go to sleep, say, 10, 10, 30, 11 o’clock, our first REM sleep period comes about 105 minutes after we fall asleep and lasts about 20 minutes. Actually, it comes about 95 minutes and lasts 10 or 15 minutes. And then we start over again, and we have about five of those per night for a perfect night sleep, four or five, something like that. So a perfect night’s sleep is seven and a half, eight hours. (Time 0:07:47)
Placebo Effect and the Architecture of a Perfect Night’s Sleep Transcript: Speaker 1 Interesting. I mean, it could have been even a placebo effect because placebo is extremely strong. Although, I don’t know, there was really something to these red pills. Speaker 2 So shout out to the acupuncturists and the Eastern medicine. But to return this idea of the architecture of a perfect night’s sleep. So you said we fall asleep. The first 90 minutes of sleep, REM sleep, rapid eye movement sleep will arrive at about 95 minutes in. Does that mean that the rest of that 90 minutes is consumed with slow-wave sleep? Speaker 1 Yeah, non-REM sleep. And what about the sleep where we are lightly asleep? And we might have a dream that has us somehow thinking about movement or that we jolt ourselves awake. That often happens early in the night. Yeah. That’s the first stage one and stage two of sleep. And stage two of sleep is really cool because that has something called sleep spindles and K complexes. And what sleep spindles are a little bit of activity that’s 10 to 15 hertz in frequency. It’s a conversation between the thalamus and the cortex. The gap thalamus is the gateway to consciousness and the neocortex processes all our cognition. And so it’s these spindles. They’re called sleep spindles. And if you wake up out of that state, you will often report a dream, like a hallucination-style dream. (Time 0:14:36)
The Effect of Body Position on Sleep and Dreams Transcript: Speaker 2 That’s really interesting to me. Long felt that sensation of almost like dropping back into my head so much so that if I elevate my feet just slightly and I tilt my head back just slightly, in order to go to sleep, I find That I fall asleep much faster. But it does feel as if I’m going to fall, like almost going to do a backward somersault. I actually really like the sensation. And usually because it proceeds falling deeply asleep. Speaker 1 Yeah, that’s really interesting. Somebody has to do a study of elevated feet. Speaker 2 Yeah, there’s a little bit on body position and sleep and some of the washout that we’ll talk about. So early in the night, you have these lighter stages of sleep, less rapid eye movement sleep. What can we say about the dreams that occur during the, say, first and second, you know, 90 minute cycles of sleep? Are they quite different than the patterns of sleep and dreaming that occur later in the night or toward morning? Well, okay, that’s an interesting question. Speaker 1 There’s a lot of facets to it. There is some evidence that the first four hours of sleep are very important for memory processing. And in fact, if you’ve learned something new that day or have experienced (Time 0:16:37)
Growth Hormone Release During Sleep Transcript: Speaker 1 So nobody knows why, but there was a great study by Siddhartha Ribeiro who studied the consolidation of memories from the hippocampus to the cortex in a rat across the period of a full Day’s sleep, because rat’s sleep in the daytime. And he found that each subsequent REM sleep period moved that memory from the hippocampus to the first area that protects to it, and then the second area, and then the third area. And you can see the memory moving throughout the sleep area. Very cool. Speaker 2 I have to read that study. So there’s a number of different hormones associated with the different stages of sleep. Speaker 1 We know that melatonin is a hormone of nighttime. That makes us sleepy. What about growth hormone release? When does that occur during sleep? So growth hormone release happens all day long and all night long, but the deep, slow-away sleep that you get the very first sleep cycle is when you get a big bolus of growth hormone release. And in men and women equally. And if you miss that first deep, slow-away sleep period, you also miss that big bolus of growth hormone release. (Time 0:18:21)
Liberación de hormona del crecimiento está fijada circadianamente Summary: Missing the first 90 minutes of sleep, known as the deep, slow-away sleep, can result in missing out on a big bolus of growth hormone release. This initial sleep cycle is crucial for protein synthesis and building memories in the brain. Our body’s internal clock regulates these processes and missing the specific timing can disrupt the synchronization of our cells. So, it’s important not to miss that critical sleep window. Transcript: Speaker 2 Sleep. Speaker 1 We know that melatonin is a hormone of nighttime. That makes us sleepy. What about growth hormone release? When does that occur during sleep? So growth hormone release happens all day long and all night long, but the deep, slow-away sleep that you get the very first sleep cycle is when you get a big bolus of growth hormone release. And in men and women equally. And if you miss that first deep, slow-away sleep period, you also miss that big bolus of growth hormone release. And you might get ultimately across the day just as much overall growth hormone release, but endocrinologists will tell you that big boluses do different things than a little bit eked Out over time. So that is when we know there’s also a big push to synthesize proteins. So that’s when the protein synthesis part that builds memories, for example, and our brain happens in that first cycle of sleep. So you don’t want to miss that, especially if you’ve learned something really big and needs more synaptic space to encode it. Speaker 2 How would somebody miss that first 90 minutes? Speaker 1 Sleep driving themselves. Yeah. Speaker 2 So let’s say I normally go to sleep at 10 p.m. And then from 10 to 11.30 would be this first phase of sleep. And that’s when the growth hormone, big bolus of growth hormone would be released. Does that mean that if I go to sleep instead at 11.30 or midnight that I missed that first phase of sleep? Why is it not the case that I get that first phase of sleep just simply starting later? Speaker 1 It is a beautiful clock that we have in our body that knows when things should happen. And it’s every cell in our body has a clock and all those clocks are normally synchronized and the circadian clocks are synchronized. And so our cells are ready to respond to that growth hormone release at a particular time. And if we miss it, and it’s a time in relation to melatonin also, so if you miss it, yeah, you might get some growth hormone release, but it’s occurring at a time when that your clock has Already moved to the next phase. Speaker 2 And so it’s just a clock thing. Yeah, I don’t (Time 0:19:07)
The Importance of Different Sleep Stages Transcript: Speaker 2 So probably fair to say, knowing just in the alcohol within the four to six hours preceding sleep, given the half life, or at all, or at all would be better. But I know some people refuse to go that way. Maybe a little bit is okay. Speaker 1 I don’t know what those those responses, but there are studies out there you can look at. Great. Speaker 2 So we’re still in the first stage of sleep, and I apologize for slowing us down, but it sounds like it’s an incredibly important first phase of sleep. What about the second and third 90 minute blocks of sleep? Is there anything that makes those unique? What is their signature besides the fact that they come second and third in the night? Speaker 1 There’s more and more REM sleep the later the night we get. There’s also a change in hormones, you know, the growth hormone and melatonin levels are starting to decline, but other hormones are picking up. So it is a really different stage that you also don’t want to shortchange yourself on. (Time 0:24:24)
The Asymmetry of Sleep and Catching Up on Sleep Transcript: Speaker 2 And as long as you can get back to sleep in a reasonable amount of time, or even if it takes you an hour, don’t worry about it as long as you have a lifestyle that allows you to then make up that Sleep either the next morning or the next night or going to bed a little earlier. So if I understand correctly, there’s a little bit of asymmetry to sleep that catching that first phase of sleep, it’s like you either get it or you don’t and you have to get it by going To sleep essentially the same time, maybe plus or minus 15 minutes or so. Speaker 1 But then if I wake up in the middle of the night and go back to sleep, I can not catch up, but I can gather all the sleep that I would have gotten had I just slept the whole way through the night. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. And then we don’t know actually the answer to whether or not the sleep in the middle between that early sleep and the late sleep is in fact different for another reason, and whether depriving Speaker 2 Yourself of sleep from say one to two 30 in the morning is bad in a different way. We don’t know. Well, I suppose I am the experiment in that case because I do tend to wake up once per night and I’ve sort of come to recognize it as part of my normal sleep architecture. I don’t obsess over it. I do notice that when I go back to sleep and especially toward morning that my sleep is incredibly deep. My dreams are incredibly vivid. I don’t always remember them, but what is unique perhaps about the architecture of dreams and sleep in the, let’s say the last third of the night or the second half of the night. Speaker 1 Yeah, and the second half of the night, we have longer REM sleep periods and those are considered the deepest sleep, even though slow way of sleep, big slow way is considered deep. (Time 0:29:27)
The Importance of Gut Microbiota and Probiotics for Health Transcript: Speaker 2 Our gut is very important. It’s populated by gut microbiota that communicate with the brain, the immune system, and basically all the biological systems of our body to strongly impact our immediate and long-term Health. And those probiotics in Athletic Greens are optimal and vital for Microbiotic Health. In addition, Athletic Greens contains a number of adaptogens, vitamins and minerals that make sure that all of my foundational nutritional needs are met. And it tastes great. If you’d like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to athleticgreens.com slash Huberman, and they’ll give you five free travel packs that make it really easy to mix up Athletic Greens While you’re on the road and the car on the plane, etc. And they’ll give you a year’s supply of vitamin D3K2. Again, that’s athleticgreens.com slash Huberman to get the five free travel packs and the year’s supply of vitamin D3K2. So this enhanced volume or proportion of rapid eye movement sleep in the second half of the night relates to more elaborate dreams. We are paralyzed during REM sleep, correct? Speaker 1 Yes, normally paralyzed, and that’s really good because that’s the time when we’re actively dreaming storyline dreams and we could hurt ourselves. We’re actually really cut off from the outside world in terms of responding to, say, this table or window or a door. (Time 0:33:48)
The Benefits of Not Using an Alarm Clock Transcript: Speaker 1 Thankfully, I’m in a mine of work that doesn’t require me normally to do anything at any particular time. I do it when I do it. Unless I have to catch a plane and then I always set my alarm just in case. Well, as a fellow academic, I can tell you there are plenty of punishing features about being an academic scientist that offset the fact that you don’t have to use an alarm clock, but Speaker 2 It is nice that you can often set your own schedule. So would you recommend that if possible that people not use an alarm clock? Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 1 If you can just listen to your body and wake up when you need to wake up, that would be great. But one of the reasons why we have such a grogginess is called sleep inertia when we wake up out of the wrong state, which is deep, slow-wave sleep is because I liken it to like a washing Machine cycle. This 90 minute cycle is like a washing machine cycle. And the first part is to add water, right? And then your clothes are soaking wet. You don’t want to open the washing machine and try and put them on and wear them around while they’re soaking wet and full of soap. So you have to wait until the cycle is through before you can, well, actually, let’s put it in the dryer too, before you want to wear them. (Time 0:37:18)
Combining subjective and objective data in assessing sleep quality Transcript: Speaker 2 Yeah. I’ve tried various ones and I compare the mattress based one to actually wear it on my ankle instead of my wrist. But and I do find it informative, but a colleague of mine at Stanford, Ali Crum, who works on mindset and belief effects, talked to me about a study they did where people often will buy Us their set up. Their sense of daytime wakefulness based on their sleep score more than their subjective score. In other words, if they were told they got a poor night’s sleep, even if they got a great night’s sleep in the in and this was, of course, measured in the sleep lab. So they they’re able to compare people report feeling more groggy and the opposite is also true that if it says 100% or 90% on your sleep score, then people will, I feel great, even though They might not have slept well. Speaker 1 So this speaks to the, I don’t want to say placebo effect, but the sort of belief effects that are woven in with a score. Yeah. So it seems to me that combining subjective and objective data is probably best. Yeah. And I do believe that you should trust your own physiology and the way that your body is telling you to feel because in fact, it used to be that people with insomnia weren’t often not believed Because you put them in a sleep lab and they looked like they slept great and you wake them up in the morning and they say, oh, I didn’t sleep very well at all. That’s because probably we just came out with a paper that shows that subcortical structures can be in a completely different sleep state than cortical structures, which is what we Measure in the sleep lab, what the cortex is doing. So it might be that people who say, I did not sleep all night long, even though the cortex is saying, oh, no, you had great sleep was because they’re monitoring their subcortical hypothalamus, Hippocampus, thalamus. (Time 0:39:41)
La limpieza cerebral que provee el sueño Summary: During the early part of the night, our brain undergoes a process of washout and cleaning. When we’re awake, our synapses and proteins change due to learning and plasticity. This process requires a lot of ATP. As we fall asleep, the brain rebuilds ATP, similar to powering up. Through deep, slow waves of sleep, our brain eliminates misfolded and broken down proteins, like cleaning up after a party. The mechanism behind this cleaning process involves the synchronized firing and silencing of neurons, similar to a bilge pump. The glymphatic system also plays a role in transferring and removing debris. As we age, the decline in slow waves can affect this cleaning process in the brain. Transcript: Speaker 2 There’s one more thing I wanted to ask about the architecture of the night sleep in terms of early part of the night. Earlier, you mentioned the washout of debris and the so-called glymphatic system. I think is what you’re referring to. Tell us a little bit more about the washout that occurs in the brain during sleep. What that is and what roles it’s thought to serve. And perhaps if there are any ways to ensure that it happens or to ensure that it doesn’t happen, and obviously we want this to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 All right. Great question. We talked about the circadian clock and how certain things happen at certain times. Well, one of the things that happens when we’re awake and talking to each other is that there’s a lot of plasticity. There’s something that I’m learning from you today and you’re learning from me. And that changes our synapses and it changes the way our proteins are going to be folded and changed during sleep. It unfolds. This process actually uses a lot of ATP, the power structure, the fuel of the brain. And it unfolds also proteins while we’re doing this, while we’re using them. And so during that first part of the night, when we first fall asleep in the first 20 minutes or so, we’re building that adenosine back into ATP. And that’s probably why power nuts are called power nuts because we’re actually rebuilding the power. And then we’re also cleaning out through the deep, slow waves of sleep, we’re cleaning out all those misfolded proteins, unfolded proteins, and other things that get broken down and Need to be rebuilt when we’re asleep because of its use during wakefulness. So I liken that to having a big party during wakefulness and you need all those party goers to leave in order to do the cleanup. And so what I think the mechanism is, and this is still something to be tested, is actually slow waves themselves, which is bad news for us as we get older and those slow waves get smaller And slow sleep goes away. So what happens when a neuron is firing is that it expands. The membrane expands a little bit, it becomes more translucent. That’s how we know, one of the rays we know that neurons expand when they fire. And so every action potential, the membrane expands a little bit as sodium brings water into their cell. And then when they’re silent, they contract. And so during slow waves, the cool thing is that the reason why you can measure them is that all the neurons at the same time, not all of them, but a good portion of them, are firing at the Same time and silent at the same time. And so you think about that as contracting and expanding all at the same time, it’s kind of like a bilge pump of the brain. So that can pump out. Glee are also really important for this in terms of cleaning up debris and transferring it to where it needs to go. So I think of it actually as a bilge pump, cleaning out our brain. (Time 0:43:18)
The Relationship Between Synaptic Plasticity and Sleep Transcript: Speaker 1 All right. Great question. We talked about the circadian clock and how certain things happen at certain times. Well, one of the things that happens when we’re awake and talking to each other is that there’s a lot of plasticity. There’s something that I’m learning from you today and you’re learning from me. And that changes our synapses and it changes the way our proteins are going to be folded and changed during sleep. It unfolds. This process actually uses a lot of ATP, the power structure, the fuel of the brain. And it unfolds also proteins while we’re doing this, while we’re using them. And so during that first part of the night, when we first fall asleep in the first 20 minutes or so, we’re building that adenosine back into ATP. And that’s probably why power nuts are called power nuts because we’re actually rebuilding the power. And then we’re also cleaning out through the deep, slow waves of sleep, we’re cleaning out all those misfolded proteins, unfolded proteins, and other things that get broken (Time 0:43:50)
Los niños tienen un reloj circadiano muy estricto Summary: Night owls should consider having children because they naturally wake up early. However, if you stay up late and wake up late, it’s not beneficial for your child. By going to bed soon after your kids and waking up with them, you can align your sleep schedule and improve both yours and their lives. Transcript: Speaker 1 I’m a night owl. I love staying up late at night doing, you know, writing grants writing papers, watching movies, whatever it is. I love it. But I like you and like every human being on earth to do better if I go to bed earlier and wake up earlier. So one good thing for a night owls is to have a child because they will wake up. And even if you deprive them of sleep in the first half of the night, they will still wake up like clockwork because their circadian rhythms are so strong at six a.m. And so what you haven’t done anything good for your kid. You haven’t moved their cycle to later and be more in line with yours. In fact, you’ve just sleep deprived them and made them miss a window and made them cranky the next day and made your life more miserable. So go to bed soon after your kids go to bed and wake up with them. That’s the way to do it. (Time 0:50:25)
The Role of Norepinephrine and Sleep in Memory Consolidation Transcript: Speaker 1 So during slow-wave sleep, normally have this big juicy variability in heart rate with every breath in and breath out because our norepineergic levels or norepinephrine levels are Lower. During REM sleep that goes away entirely and our heart rate is dominated by parasympathetic rather than sympathetic activity and also what our brain is driving, you know, what our Dreaming about. For example, for dreaming, we’re running our heart rates will go up. But norepinephrine levels still should be low or off. So people with PTSD that norepineergics, we’re studying these in rats too, is it true that our locus feels it doesn’t shut off when we have post-traumatic stress disorder and the preliminary Evidence is, yes, it’s true that it doesn’t shut off. So what that would do is norepinephrine would act at synapses to prevent that weakening that you really need, for example, of novelty encoding structures. And it keeps memories in that novelty encoding structure even once it’s consolidated to the rest of the brain. So in the hippocampus, which is important for remembering things throughout our lives and it’s that thumb drive, we need it to be erased so that we can learn new things once it’s been Consolidated to the hard drive of our cortex. (Time 1:03:25)
Qué son y para qué sirven los husos del sueño Summary: Sleep spindles play a crucial role in our intelligence and memory. The density of our sleep spindles is correlated with our intelligence and our ability to consolidate and incorporate new information. Increasing sleep spindle density can enhance our learning and memory retention during sleep. Transcript: Speaker 1 We now know a lot more about spindles first of all the first thing that we knew first of all we ignored them then we thought they had something to do with keeping us asleep and that was their Function is when an external stimulus came they would keep us asleep because they would arise but now we know that the density of our sleep spindles the number that we produce per minute Is well correlated with our intelligence in the first place and that no matter what your intelligence is and no matter what your sleep spindle density is if you learn something during The day and increase your sleep spindle density it’s really almost perfectly correlated with our ability to consolidate that information and incorporate it into the schema that We already have in our brain so if you try and learn something new even if your sleep spindle density at baseline is great if you don’t increase your sleep spindles that night you’re not Going to you know use sleep to really incorporate it (Time 1:28:07)
Husos del sueño y plasticidad en las dendritas distales Summary: During sleep spindles, our neurons’ distal dendrites, which listen to internal conversations in our brains, exhibit incredible plasticity. This is when the hippocampus and cortex are best connected, allowing for the encoding of schemas. These surges of calcium into the distal dendrites during sleep spindles result in significant plasticity and learning. Sleep spindles occur in the N2 stage of sleep. Transcript: Speaker 1 So one of the things we now know through some great studies by Julie Seep and Anita Luthi is that sleep spindles are accompanied by an incredible plasticity out in the distal dendrites The listening branches of our neurons that listen to other cortical areas so there are proximal dendrites in our neurons that listen to the external world and are conducted through The thalamus and then there are distal dendrites which listen to an internal kind of you know conversation that’s happening happening in our brains it’s kind of you know our internal State really and during sleep spindles that’s when those distal dendrites are able to best learn from other cortical areas and from the hippocampus it is during sleep spindles at the Hippocampus and the cortex are best connected and when that class incredible plasticity can happen when I talk about schema that’s a cortical cortical thing that’s when you know the Image of Santa Claus and presents you know comes together it’s not through some external thing once we learn those things together it’s our cortex that encodes that and brings those Images back up together and that’s during sleep spindles when that’s happening when that there’s big surges of calcium into those distal dendrites and where plasticity happens in Just huge amounts during that sleep spindle stage of sleep which is N2 stage (Time 1:29:31)
Distal dendrites
dendritas_distales husos_del_sueño sueño
El sueño REM separa la emoción del recuerdo Summary: Talking about a trauma might not be helpful in calming the sympathetic nervous system down before sleep, according to a study. It can reactivate emotions without emphasizing safety or providing guidance on avoiding similar situations. Considering sleep is essential, bringing down the sympathetic nervous system before bedtime can ensure adaptive sleep and help erase the novelty of the trauma. Transcript: Speaker 1 Well, I think one of the things that people might help after a trauma, like a school shooting or whatever, car accident is to talk about it. And, but in fact, that ended up being counterproductive. And I think one of the reasons why it was counterproductive is because it didn’t take them back down. It brought them up and continued to reactivate the emotions of it, but then didn’t emphasize the safety effect that it’s over or help them work through how they might avoid it again in The future to calm the sympathetic nervous system down again before they went to sleep. And none of these studies have sleep ever been considered. But to me, that’s the key part, is bringing down your sympathetic nervous system before you go to sleep so that your sleep can be adaptive, your locus ros can shut off like it normally Does or should do, and then able to erase the novelty of it. The other thing that I just mentioned a minute ago was that the emotional system is highly activated in REM sleep, and that’s definitely true. And that might seem counterproductive in terms of the nightmares and how to help REM sleep be a therapeutic thing rather than reinforcing the emotionality of the trauma. And I think the key to that again is the absence of an orphaneferen. So even though the emotional system is in high gear, without an orphaneferen, you can actually divorce those highly activated emotions from the cognitive parts of the memory that You have just written out in that empty stage of sleep when the sleep spindles are going. So you’ve just now consolidated the information that you’ll need to survive and to make that adaptive. And now you need to divorce from that schema and from that semantic parts of memory, the emotional part, because whenever you remember something, it’s fine if you remember being emotional At the time, but you don’t wanna bring back and so into that memory all of the same emotional systems. You don’t wanna bring back the heart rate changes in the sweating and all of that. You wanna be able to remember all the parts of it and even remember that you were traumatized and that you did cry and that you did have all your heart was racing. But when you’re talking about it, years later, you don’t wanna have to relive all that, otherwise who would ever want to recall a dramatic memory because you’re basically putting yourself Through the same trauma, which is what people with PTSD have. They don’t want to recall this traumatic memory because it’s reliving it like it’s just happening again. So that’s what we’re thinking is that the emotional parts are not able to be divorced because the North benefit system is not downscaled during REM sleep. And so that REM sleep serves to instead reinforce and in fact amplify the emotions because your emotional system is up, locus surrealist is high, re-sewing in every night the emotionality Of those memories and with the memory itself. (Time 1:44:26)